cute ako
... and respect? I think its H/Hr. A couple of posts back it was mentioned that it can be hard to tell where the line is drawn between great friends and lovers - I say its because the line is so thin. At the rate the H/Hr friendship has been moving, I think they'll cross that line pretty soon and not even realise it. On the other hand, I see R/Hr as being pretty far from that line. I am one of those that define chemistry as being able to relax in each others presence and form an emotional attachment right away. I don't define chemistry as being tension between two people. This is a recipe for disaster. xxxxxx (Lleyki) JK made Ron's feelings very obvious. However, every time Fleur kissed Ron, where Hermione scowled, she made certain Fleur had also kissed Harry. She brings in Rita Skeeter who besides annoying everyone keeps writing her articles insinuating Hermione is Harry's girlfriend. She has Ron jealous of Krum but makes a point of having Krum jealous of Harry for the same reasons Ron is jealous of him (Krum). She makes this whole fuss of building Ron's feelings throughout the novel, but chooses to end on the note of Hermione kissing Harry for the first time.(I know that people see that as friendship, probably, but I'm making a point). What have we learned from JK, pay attention to not what's screaming in front of us, but subtleties. What did Quirrel say in BK.1, with Snape there who would ever suspect him. With the obvious, people rarely notice the subtle. I mean if I look at the progression of the books in relation to Harry and Hermione; she hugs him in BK.1, there's the whole running towards him screaming you did it, in Bk.2 (which Columbus assumed was a hug), there's great interaction and connection built between them in POA; having to go back in time, face Dementors, etc. and then in GOF she kisses him. Someone might say she gets bolder with her feelings each book. Let me say before anyone gets ready to argue, that none of these things are to prove they like each other. My point is if after all that I could say that this could all be simple occurrences of friendship; where exactly has it been obvious since BK.1 that Ron and Hermione were going to happen? So many R/H shippers say that they can't understand why people would ever think H/H would ever happen because there is nothing to support it. However, based on a number of other posts, I've realized that it's not that no evidence is ever there, it's just that so many of you are really good at explaining it away. Let me make my point before I really confuse some people; (1) Hermione kisses Harry for the first time. R/H shippers say; oh it was for comfort, it's because she's so comfortable with him. He'd been through alot. It meant absolutely nothing. (2) Krum is suspicious of Hermione and Harry because apparently she talks about him alot. Even when he's not around. So much so it bothers Krum. Some say; oh she probably didn't want to talk too much about Ron because that's whom she really likes, so it'd be obvious. (3) Hermione is spending so much time glowing over Harry after the second task, once again Krum gets annoyed; some say oh she was just proud of him, he'd accomplished something on his own and she knew how hard he'd worked. (4) Hermione jumps into Harry's arms in BK.1; people say well she was scared he was going to die and she'd never see him again. That's all it was. Just like the kiss of course. (5) Hermione takes great care in making sure she gave Harry a gift he would love and was probably pretty expensive. Some say she did it only because she knows he's had horrible birthdays and wanted to make sure he had a nice one. Even though Harry would be happy with a simple gift, just to know that people care about him. Now all these explanations could be right and I could go on. However I find it fascinating that a couple that apparently shows no evidence of happening; so many incidents need to be explained away, and always with the "they're really good friends that's all it is". xxxxx (Turambar) It's interesting how the Hermione/Krum relationship mirrors the Harry/Cho one. Hermione has at least some interest in Krum. We get descriptions of the physical symptoms. When she talks about Krum inviting her to his home she "blushes scarlet" and when she talks about his feelings for her it says "Hermione was going so red now that Harry could almost feel the heat coming from her." She is also apparently flustered when Krum asks her for a chat at the end. What's really so different between that and Harry stammering over Cho or some of Ron's behaviour towards Hermione? People might say, she's embarrassed about talking about it with the boys and part of the attraction is probably flattery that a famous person has taken notice of her. But she actually commented on Krum being brave at the quidditch world cup and she was quite dismissive of Krum's library groupies. My point is that if the H/C and Hr/K relationships can be dismissed as temporary attractions (which they usually are and I agree) all that can really be taken from the R/Hr relationship in GOF is that Ron has a developing interest in Hermione but there's no guarantee it's returned. By the end of GOF they appear to have jointly resolved not to talk about the awkwardness that happened between them and the relationship appears pretty normal. If she was interested why not raise the subject in a non-threatening way; why not at least kiss Ron on the cheek goodbye to encourage him? Instead she kisses Harry. The argument that 'she might have kissed Ron as well we just didn't see it' doesn't work. Saying something might have happened but it isn't in the text denies the author the right to present the story as she wants to present it - to make the points she wants to make. It is written as it is written for a purpose. Some people point to the scene where Ron asks Krum for his autograph and "Hermione turned away, smiling at the horseless carriages" as some sort of sign that she likes him. But is she smiling at what's going on or what Krum has said to her in private? What if she's smiling at the fact that Ron has been able to overcome his jealousy enough to ask for the autograph. Is that necessarily good news for Ron? It could mean after all that Hermione now feels Ron would be more accepting of a relationship between herself and Krum. He'd get over it. One more point re K/H/Hr. When Ron accuses Krum of just asking Hermione to the ball to get info on Harry (what a prat, honestly!) Hermione answers "for your information, he hasn't asked me one single thing about Harry, not one." Then when Krum talks to Harry about Hermione he says she "talks about you very often". This means a) she is bringing up the subject of Harry with a guy she is actually interested in and b) she's not talking about the guy she's supposedly mad keen about. I think all these attractions are temporary. The lake task chapter was really the writing on the wall for H/C and Hr/K. It's a matter of them realising that the other meant more to them than the person they are attracted to at the moment. The only relationship that has a chance of being long-term is Harry/Hermione. xxxxx (Turambar) Question-Does Hermione like Ron as more than a friend? JK's Answer-The answer to that is in Goblet of Fire! The interesting thing is the questioner didn't say "do Ron and Hermione like each other as more than just friends." The question was totally about Hermione's feelings and JKR is saying the answer is in GOF, you don't have to read the next book to find out. Most people appear to agree that Ron is interested in Hermione to some extent, though people differ over how much. Most people also think that Harry hasn't shown signs of romantic interest in Hermione to this point, though their friendship has deepened. The really controversial part is Hermione's feelings. Because JKR has made Ron's interest clear people have assumed that's where the action lies and many people have missed subtle signs elsewhere. But if we look at Hermione's feelings some things are clear: 1) Harry means a great deal to her, more than Ron does. There is multiple evidence for this but it would take too long to list it all here. 2) Hermione is also getting used to viewing the boys as 'boys' so like them may not be totally aware of the complexity of her feelings towards them until later in the book. 3) Hermione talks about Harry "a lot" to a boy who is interested in her and she is attracted to some extent. He is suspicious there is something going on. She does not talk about Ron in the same way. 4) That boy, Krum, has quite a lot of characteristics in common with Harry. 5) Several people - Molly, Rita, Krum, Colin and possibly even McGonagall - think Harry and Hermione believable as a couple but do not consider Ron and Hermione the same way. 6) After the Yule Ball Hermione, being the more mature of the pair, had multiple opportunities to let Ron know how she felt about him if she liked him, plenty of chances to encourage him. Instead she refuses to tell him if she's going to Bulgaria, their relationship gets back on its normal friendship level and she ends with a kiss for Harry. 7) The kiss. Various theories have been put forward about this but one thing is undeniable: it was something she had never done before. My own personal opinion is that the probability is she doesn't like Ron as more than a friend (Mad Eye Mike) Judging by the little things in GoF, it appears the answer is either no, she doesn't like Ron that way or she doesn’t know whom she likes. If there's one thing that GoF did not make clear, it was Hermione's possible romantic feelings for anybody - Harry, Ron or Krum. I mean, we learn who everyone likes or has a crush on - Harry, Ron, Hagrid, Cho & Cedric. We even learn whom the newly introduced characters - Fleur, Krum & Maxime - like, but we really don't get a crystal clear picture of whom Hermione is interested in. She is one third of the books main cast. She is second to Harry in importance & quite frankly, if she wasn't around, Harry would probably be dead right now. Yet, when it came down to revealing her inner most feelings to the readers, hers were deliberately kept secret. Why is that? If it were made clear that Hermione liked Ron or Harry, this thread wouldn't be as big as it is. We KNOW that Harry likes Cho to the point where there isn't a discussion about it because we know it. We know or think that Ron likes Hermione because of JKR's quote & the apparent jealous behavior he displayed. But the one thing we still don't know - in terms of having solid concrete evidence that could stand up in court - is how Hermione feels. This whole thread is not about Harry/Cho or Ron/Fleur. It's become about Hermione's actions & what do they mean exactly. We're no longer debating who likes whom so to speak from ALL the characters; we're now debating whom Hermione likes [with the occasional Ginny debate thrown in]. We can't debate if Harry likes Cho because we KNOW that, nor can we argue if Ron likes Fleur. But when it comes to H/G, H/Hr or R/Hr, whew, boy do people really begin reading between the lines [or in some cases making stuff up]. Shouldn't have Hermione's feelings for anyone been made very clear in GoF if those feelings won't have a lasting impact on books 5-7? No, her feelings were kept ambiguous for a reason. In GoF, she has three guys she potentially likes: Harry, Ron & Krum. There are reasons & hints dropped in GoF as to why she likes any or all of them. And yet, at the end, we know no more than when we began really. We don't get that kind of complication with Harry or even Ron, so why Hermione? She's not the focal point or star of the book so why are her feelings for anyone kept so cryptic? What makes revealing her feelings any more of an issue than revealing Ron’s or Harry’s? Personally, I believe who Hermione likes is going to become a major - and quite messy - issue in the next three books. With EVERY other character in the books going through romantic entanglements, we are given a very clear description of whom they like, everyone that is, except Hermione. Now to respond to (Turambar's) 7 points: 1. I think we can all agree that Harry means more to Hermione than anything else in her life. Everything that happens between them in GoF makes that very clear. 2. Like I said above, I think JKR is deliberately holding back who Hermione likes because I think it's going to become a plot point in later books. 3. From what we know, she doesn’t talk about Ron at all. If she did, I would think Krum would ask Harry about that too. Since the book is from Harry’s POV, it would let the readers know she’s talking about BOTH of the boys. 4. Yes he does and very often in people’s lives, they actually fall for someone who’s extremely reminiscent of someone they’re close to & have feelings for subconsciously. 5. That’s very telling, that so many different people think H/Hr are a couple. Even Ron’s mother believed it based on how she had previously seen Harry & Hermione acting together. Honestly, if there weren’t anything - even subconsciously - going on between H/Hr, Molly would’ve dismissed the article as “That Rita Skeeter doesn’t know what she’s talking about. I’ve seen those two together & there’s nothing going on.” Yet, Molly got angry enough with Hermione to actually start treating her differently because Molly probably noticed something between the two that H/Hr haven’t yet. 6. I always got the feeling from GoF that Hermione likes Ron very much, but not in that way. She didn’t want to tell him anything because she was afraid it would damage their re...